We had some comments from xan, t’other day that we felt the need to address.
xan wrote:
FTV Felicia aka Felicia Clover just did hardcore for Score.
Can you see the relation between girls who start off softcore and for hardcore and and loss of fan base. I’m sure there’s something there and I’m sure it’ll make for a good article. Karina Hart and Valory Irene almost did hardcore but never went all the way, why is that.
We have featured Valory Irene, previously:
We can’t decide about titty-fucks, though… are they hard- or soft-core? Reese says hard-, Vix says soft-, but appreciates the quandry. It’s not penetration, is it… but it is a similar interraction.
Maybe, (being geeks, following the computing analogy) we could call it firm-core? Anyhoo, here’s a (previously released) Karina Hart titfuck video and photos from KarinaHart.com
We’re still not addressing the raised issues, are we? So, if a model goes from softcore to hardcore, possibly via firmcore, are you less likely to still be a fan? Does the model get a different fan-base if she follows that path?
It’s funny, we see so many comments about certain softcore models saying that they should go hardcore, saying that their site is boring, they should spread their legs, etc. But as soon as a model does, we get comments from other people saying that it is a shame that the model felt the need to do this.
Obviously, we all like different things, some like to see it all going on, and others like to keep the model to themselves, doing all the fucking in their heads, as it were.
Which do you prefer? Do you stop using a particular model if they turn to the hard- side, or do you get off on it?
I think the models should do what they want to do. What they enjoy. I honestly only get off when I know the other person is enjoying it, regardless of it being my girlfriend, wife, or whoever I am watching.
And I think that might be the issue. The models that start softcore and then go hardcore because of popular demand might not like doing hardcore, and the people watching can tell, so there’s no comment from the “popular demand” but then the people who were fine with their softcore material are upset because they miss it.
I think in this day, there’s something for everyone. Don’t do something that you’re not into just because some wanker out there says they want you to. Do what you like, be yourself, and it will be rewarding for everyone.
Thanks again for taking out time to address my question. My own personal opinion is, I’m fine with hardcore porn stars….when they start out that way. When a model goes from softcore to hardcore, its different. I feel they are “betraying” there initial fan base, and although I don’t have a problem with hardcore, I just don’t get it, I don’t get the need to see it. I can’t imagine they get anymore money, in fact, they can’t have a career outside of the industry if they are hardcore porn stars.
Somewhat agree with Xan; completely agree with NonExclusive.
I think a lot of the guys who prefer softcore like to fall in love with their models, so the hardcore shatters the innocence facade they get off on. But I could be wrong. Anyway, I agree that models should only do what they want, and there’s no single best category. People like different things. I, for instance, am in the mood for different types of stuff at different times. Sometimes soft, sometimes hard, sometimes lez, sometimes teaser or webcam. I have different models I go to for each.
Karina Hart also did a fake “hardcore” sex scene with a guy wearing a plastic penis. I always got the impression that with Karina’s two scenes they were something of a concession on her part due to there being pressure to get into hardcore. Personally I’m glad she didn’t.
I think when someone makes the switch it takes the mystery out of the whole situation to a degree. You’ve get a director’s interpretation of what the scene will look like rather than the one in your head you may have been developing for a while. Often the scene can turn out differently than you expected, so can be underwhelming sometimes. I got that feeling with Felicia Clover’s recent hardcore scenes.
Often the mystery is more compelling than the reality. Be it with someone like Karina going to hardcore, or with somebody such as Wendy Fiore going topless, the mystery is probably the most sensual aspect.
I personally do not care for hardcore at all. The men in the scenes are generally disgusting for one thing, often looking like thugs. Secondly, the action itself is often distasteful. As much as I like doing it, I don’t really enjoy watching it from an outside perspective. Furthermore, I love looking at naked women, busty being my especial favorite, however, watching the events, especially the gynecological close up variety, actually turns me off.
Overall, something like watching a girl play with herself is exciting, but seeing some tattooed hoodlum with a belly sticking his giant member up a girl’s rear is not.
Just my opinion, given for feedback purposes only. To each their own.
Maybe the softcore production values are frequently higher. Looks that way to me. Nicer costumes, makeup, locations, etc. Frequently all that goes out the window in hardcore. Not always though. Samantha 38g does hardcore with good production values and seems to keep a good fanbase.
KARINA DID IT FOR THE MONEY! Stop talking about her as if she cares about her fans or something. I mean, guys c’mon, she did what every breastman wanted to see her doing, which was to have a huge black cock between her udders, to have her milky white udders full of fucking cum. Man, that was just epic! It’s hardcore indeed, she a pornstar like many others, if they had offered her more money then she would probably take a cock in her pussy. Stop treating her like if she were a fucking pude, no averange woman with a sense of decency and honor would put a black cock between her tits and get everything filmed just for money.
first off the title of this thread is misleading. Second, It sounds like some of you fall in love and or don’t wanna see them go hardcore because some of you have insecurities that would enable you to pleasure a woman. So as long as shes just modeling these people are not reminded of they’re insecurities. I for one would LOVE for Jana Defi, Karina Hart, September Carrino, to go HARDCORE asap. I mean give me a break who wouldn’t wanna see Karina on all fours with that big ass in the air titties swingn and getting pounded!
@r u serious
….r u serious? I through that right back at you, wtf. seriously. why? it’s not you. have you know imagination? what’s the point? i don’t even….
Karina hart did do a titfuck, the title is correct, sir…then she cut all ties with SCORE…(as a fair amount of women do), she changed her name. I’m not a fan of SCORE, they obviously don’t treat there women kindly, no slander, i have no proof, just and observation…
@ BreastExpert – I disagree with your comment about “sense of decency and honor”. Women that do porn do not have to have low self-respect or decency. You have to be proud of yourself and happy with what you’re doing, because as has been said many a time before, it really shows if you’re not.
These are mainly strong, independent, business women.
Also, I fail to see what the colour of the skin of either participant has to do with this.
BreastExpert:
“no averange woman with a sense of decency and honor would put a black cock between her tits and get everything filmed just for money”
I can hardly think of a more retarded and judgemental definition of women’s decency and honor. And what about women, who would never show even their boobs on photos, but engage with rich men to settle comfortable ? Is that decency and honor ?
Vix:
“These are mainly strong, independent, business women.”
Right !
I enjoy it for what it is. Hardcore – great. Softcore – great. Not judgemental either way. Karina’s titfuck scene was hot. Simple as. :)
ha ha some great comments here,, for me i can take it or leave it as far as hardcore goes,, ive got busty riding acadamy and have enjoyed the karina scene many times(came out 2009) but if it never happened it wouldnt be a problem for me… i buy score magazine every month and im a longtime reader and always read letters from guys moaning about models not doing hardcore and i find it ridiculous,, its really not that important… i want to see big tits and anything else is a bonus, one of my favourite models is karla james (dont know if you guys are familiar with her) and she is yet to even drop her panties but it doesnt change my opinion of her as im happy to see what shes comfortable showing… hey each to his own but i do think that models could loose a fan base doing hardcore..
I want someone to plz explain to me why these SOFTCORE MODELS would lose fan base for going hardcore? I agree to each his own..i’m just curious why is hardcore bad? I love sex by the way..if that helps my point at all.
@xan..are u telling me that Karina didn’t enjoy that scene? Does she not like men? Was she forced into that scene by SCORE? Because she does dildo scenes ALL the time. Do I have an imagination..sure I do..but I’d rather SEE her face down ass UUUUUP getting pounded! thank you I’ll b here all week
simply put. if she enjoyed it, she would of did like the other models SCORE turns and gone full hardcore (Valory Irene too,maybe?). no, rather she cut all ties with them and even changed her name too Kay Loove. im assuming the name and look change has to do with SCORE owning the rights or whatever, like in WWE. id love to be a fly on the wall in there (SCORE) offices.
@ r u serious,, not everything is about hardcore mate,, sometimes its just great to see a model getting her tits out and thats it…. a lot of men who follow a models career from day 1 (i did with linsey dawn mckenzie) develop a bond with that model and to see them getting their pussy and ass reamed by some dumb stud just doesnt bode well with them for whatever reason… once this happens they tend to loose interest in that model and seek out a new one…
I never said that they had to go hardcore for me to be interested it’s just after the same content over and over and over..I mean come on..it’s time for something better. Off topic though can someone plz tell me if Jana Defi has officially retired bc I keep seeing new pictures of her..new to me anyway? What is her current situation?
yeah, she retired. rumor has it, some those leaked cell pics made her quit (they may have been underaged but like a 1 or so).
anyway, how would countless glamour/topless shots be boring, but not hardcore action? isn’t that the same difference…or even worse? how different ways can you see a chick get fucked by gross dudes?
i do agree that softcore can get boring, but there are too many well known models that have been around way too long for that argument to be completely valid. its just a creative issue, and models not knowing there fan-base, or how to acquire new fan-bases. some models like Jordan Carver do the dress up thing, but they could take it a step further and do Cosplay.
it appears some models even go hardcore to try to get a new fanbase or to rejuvenate there careers, but its my opinion that hardcore fans dont spend, nor do they want to spend the money that a softcore fan does.
I have to laugh at some of these comments, even though they are well written & thought out. Which I do appreciate.
In general, models don’t care about fan bases. All they care about is the pay check. Each girl has her limitations, or her boyfriends/husband/pimp says what her limitations are.
Don’t get me wrong, there are girls who do, they have their own websites, blogs, cam shows & social media accts like twitter & such.
When you go to work, do you do it for the paycheck or do you have the companies bottom line & best interest at heart? ARe their days you just show up & day where you go to work and kill it? Same with us. :) If you loved your jobs, if the company was having money problems & couldn’t make payroll. Would you do it for free? Yet, ya’ll seem to ask us to do just that. Point being you or I can’t reason why a model does or doesn’t do anything. We all have our individual reasons.
Fact is there is only so much glamour work a model can get. There is way more money & shoots for girls who do hardcore. Agents often will have them do all the glamour & softcore 1st then onto the hardcore if the girl is willing.
All this judgement about decency & honor, if you had any would you be watching porn? So then don’t judge those who do porn, cause you have no moral ground to stand on.
I refuse to feel guilt about sex, enjoying sex & making money off of it. Bible thumpers keep reading the bible & stay off the web. :) Come on, you are all perverts watching & jacking off to porn.
Smooches,
Samantha38g
David Samuel, thanks for noticing. I love the creative part of my job. Outfits, makeup, set design & such. Sooo fortunate to get to work with very creative fun people. Since mine is a solo site, I do get to be a bit more experimental than big companies. My fans & members don’t bitch & complain when I try different things.
FYI: The Score group doesn’t not FORCE anyone to do anything they don’t want to do. They may offer more money, but each model can chose. Now they may not shoot her again if she doesn’t go hardcore. Since I have worked with The Score Group for over 13 years & you have not. May have more knowledge on that subject.
Porn is about new faces. Not unusual for them not to keep shooting a model unless ya’ll take the time to write them & want more. If she is still shooting they will bring back your favorite girls. Don’t hate on them, when they bring so many new faces & incredible girls for all of to enjoy. Not to mention, TIME, girls bodies change, many after one or two shoots decide not to do it again. Nothing The Score Group can do about that.
Smooches,
Samantha38g
We’re into academic psychology territory here. I wonder if there has ever been done any scientific research on porn consumer behaviours. :-)
that makes the whole damn thing depressing.
@ samantha38g,, great to hear it from the horses mouth but remember each model has there own ideas about where they fit in with the modeling game and for some its not just a pay cheque,, just my opinion… by the way im a big fan and love your work….
What a lovely sentiment ca, but the glamour models charge the most & show the least. They above all do it for the check.
None of these girls are doing it for free. They all got a check. So-called Glamour models have the worst attitude & resent the fans more than any other chics in porn. They feel the fans & gals who do porn are beneath them. Only exception I can think of is Taylor Stevens whom is a sweetheart.
Prime example is Dors Feline, who I liked, but she hated the whole industry & just did it to make enough money for a reduction. * When she did try to interact with the fans, they were way to needy, demanding(as in free pics, free videos, free sex, sex, money) , demeaning & cruel to the poor girl.* This got even worst when she got a reduction. Showing just how cruel the fans can be towards models.
If you are delusional to think girls get naked & have pics & videos taken because they are horny & need new men to have sex with. You ARE mistaken.
If you are delusional to think girls do it so horny men around the world will have new jackoff material out of the goodness of their hearts. You are mistaken.
Girls get into this because many men around them wanted to see them naked & said how they would be filthy rich if they did. Well, the rich part NEVER happens.
Other than priest & nons, I don’t KNOW anyone who works for FREE! out of the goodness of their hearts. EVERYONE wants to be paid well for their job & told good job. To say anyone works without that motive is delusional. WE all have bills. We all want money in the bank & a wonderful place to live. To diss girls and say they are wrong for wanting to earn a check is Wrong.
Smooches,
Sam
Samantha, this is an actual question. I am just curious, because I ask people this kind of question frequently. Like I often ask friends who took on new jobs, “Was the extra responsibility worth the extra money?”
Have you found that most models have found hard core work rewarding financially? I assume hardcore is much more arduous work. Are the payoffs worth the extra hardship? Or is the work less difficult than it would appear?
Thanks for your insight. Oh, just to complement you, I’ve seen you make comments before regarding concern over girl’s bodies aging. I hope you realize you look better than ever. Women get much more sexy with time in my opinion.
@samantha 38g,, interesting but i still disagree… why would some of the models resent their fans??? without us they wouldnt get the cheque… i love karla james and get the feel from her shoots that shes in touch with her fans and cares about them… i certainly like to think so anyway…
@samantha 38g,, have i said already im a huge fan and its been an honour to chat to you…. was just looking at some of your pics this morning,, those tits are quite something keep up the good work…
@ca, You might be shocked to read some of the things so-called fans write, in comments, chat and email. I’ve been the “behind the scenes” guy, building and running paysites for about 15 years, and some of their comments make me want to buy a plane ticket and shake the shit out of some of these guys. It’s hard to get any metrics out of it, because the paying members hardly ever speak, but the free visitors always seem to have an opinion and a lot of the comments are extremely disrespectful and downright abusive. Half my job is banning those sociopaths and protecting the performers from that abuse, as much as possible. Like I said, I’m not even in front of the camera and yet rarely a week goes by that I don’t wish for a gadget that would let me punch someone’s lights out over the internet… :P
In live cam shows, some people get super bossy and have to be kicked out of the chat room, because they constantly bark out orders and make the performers uncomfortable, or they will insult the performer on their looks or presumed (lack of) intellect. There are some folks who go into chat rooms only to spew insults, with what I can only assume are stolen passwords, because I can’t believe someone would pay money to tell a woman she’s a “nigger fucker” or other moronic filth.
If that’s not enough, there are a staggering number of production companies that routinely mistreat the talent, jerk them around with money, or in some cases fail to pay out at all. Sure, the word gets out that so-and-so is a creep or scammer, but there will always be more young naïve girls walking in the door to keep those pricks in business. Some of them are little more than johns with cameras, and they treat their women exactly as you would expect your average inner city pimp. It’s a real plague in the industry.
It takes a LOT of effort, physical and mental, to push through all that bullshit and end up with a scorching hot scene. Thankfully a lot of people are now going the independent route, avoiding some of that nonsense, but it is a ton of work to pull it off. Like any job, the first reason you do it is for the money. If you can somehow find a way to enjoy what you do, you might actually last in the business. It is never easy.
@fucko, interesting to hear, just hope the industry cleans up its act and weeds out all this negativity.
Personally, I just like to see new stuff: new girls, new outfits/hair/makeup on those girls, new roles/poses, and yes, new sexual experiences. I like it when a girl starts out with fully clothed glamour type shots, and then gradually gets more hardcore over time; too much too fast can be a bad thing. If I find a woman attractive, I want to see her in as many different ways as possible. But that’s just me; to each his own.
That being said, I’m also a pretty big pervert and wish there were more big boobed girls that did gangbangs, groupsex and orgies, b/c I do LOVE hardcore! Can’t help what I like…[shrug]
I’d love to see her do a hardcore POV scene with someone who knows how to keep their mouth shut.
I can only get off to POV porn with a white or light skinned guy since I’m white myself. Obviously it’s because I like to fantasize about fucking them myself, as opposed to fantasize about being a cameraman recording someone fucking them. Though it’s definitely rising in popularity, I never understood why it’s been resigned to a niche instead of the standard, voyeurism seems to be less common a fetish than the desire to fuck, and that’s exactly what every type of porn that isn’t shot from a first person perspective is when you get down to the core of it.
Someone mentioned not liking “thugs” in porn, and I have to agree. Garish jewelry and tattoo’s on the male actors in particular piss me off, at least visible arm tattoo, and especially when they have entire sleeves worth of douchebag tats, like barbed wire, spiderwebs, or anything tribal. Even if I had tattoo’s on my arms I’d still find it a turn off, because it would be easier to superimpose your own tattoos mentally onto a blank slate than it is to replace tattoos that aren’t anything like what you would get yourself. Really who follows male actors anyway? You don’t need to have yourself identifiable, in fact it should put you out of a job. I doubt many gay guys make a habit of watching straight porn, and most women who admit to watching porn, even the straight ones, usually say they’re more concerned with the female actresses the same as men are.
And obviously taking all of the above into account, I HATE it when they won’t shut up, and more so when they moan and groan, SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY, I want to hear the girl getting off and the sound of my dick proxy sloshing around inside of her soaking wet pussy, not what sounds like you’re taking your life’s biggest shit! Holy hell!
I enjoy both softcore and hardcore models. The only turn off is when models only fuck black guys.